FYI-
Got the new Issue of The Golf magazine. They did a test of a bunch of
HP brake pads. Here are the results. This was a independent testing
and they did 15 test on each pad. They did not test for dust or other
factors.

Pad:                       Average Stopping Distance:

Standard OE VW Pads       34.4m
Frenzi Italia                       32.3m
Pagid T4151                      31.6m
Pagid FR4151                    30.7m
Ferodo DS2000                  32.7m
Brembo                             31.8m
G-Force Sport                    30.5m
Formula Pads                     32.7m
OMP 961k                         30.7m
Mintex 1144                       26.9m

turbotimnewdimensions
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"George Turner, Jr." <georgeqst.dxnet> wrote:
>OK everyone, this came around faster than I planned due to my
>front brake pads grinding against my rotors.....  I currently have
>Mintex Pads, and I love them, but from some recent stats have
>lead me to believe that FERODO brake pads are FAR superior to
>Mintex pads (except for the dust content). If you would like to see
>test results from Hawk, Mintex, Ferodo, and a couple other
>Manufactures, please email me privately and I will send you

George
I am sure the Ferodo and many other brake pads are very good but
to post a statement of FAR superior is not a fair comparison.
In the test that I am sure you are talking about I do not believe the
stock replacement Ferodo pads were tested but the fast road ones
were. Compounds may have changed that Mintex used back when
this test was done just like the Ferodo has also. The Mintex
redbox are like a stock replacement and are not for racing use.

The DS2000 as well as the early Ferodo are a race/sport pad that
have a high level of dust. Just like the Mintex HPR 1144 race pads
that we also sell but do not recommend for the average street driver
who does not race the car and hates cleaning the wheels every few
days. Different pads for different uses.

Also The Golf magazine did a test of about 8 high performance
brake pads in England. The Ferodo and the Mintex race pads were
in these 8. Here are the results of the test.

This was a independent testing and they did 15 test on each pad.
They did not test for dust or other factors.

Pad:                       Average Stopping Distance:

Standard OE VW Pads       34.4m
Frenzi Italia                       32.3m
Pagid T4151                      31.6m
Pagid FR4151                    30.7m
Ferodo DS2000                  32.7m
Brembo                             31.8m
G-Force Sport                    30.5m
Formula Pads                     32.7m
OMP 961k                         30.7m
Mintex 1144                       26.9m



turbotimnewdimensions
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Tim, you didn't include the test speeds the stops were made from for the stopp
ing distances you provided (about 50 mph?)  Were the numbers obtained before o
r after the pads were up to operating temperature.  If I recall correctly the
Ferodo DS2000 offers superior fade resistance to the Mintex 1144.  This is cer
tainly a feature for the road racers to consider.


Garrick Forkenbrock
1986 Jetta GLI 8V
SCCA DM 72

>>> turbotimnewdimensions 12/30/98 12:56AM >>>
"George Turner, Jr." <georgeqst.dxnet> wrote:
>OK everyone, this came around faster than I planned due to my
>front brake pads grinding against my rotors.....  I currently have
>Mintex Pads, and I love them, but from some recent stats have
>lead me to believe that FERODO brake pads are FAR superior to
>Mintex pads (except for the dust content). If you would like to see
>test results from Hawk, Mintex, Ferodo, and a couple other
>Manufactures, please email me privately and I will send you

George
I am sure the Ferodo and many other brake pads are very good but
to post a statement of FAR superior is not a fair comparison.
In the test that I am sure you are talking about I do not believe the
stock replacement Ferodo pads were tested but the fast road ones
were. Compounds may have changed that Mintex used back when
this test was done just like the Ferodo has also. The Mintex
redbox are like a stock replacement and are not for racing use.

The DS2000 as well as the early Ferodo are a race/sport pad that
have a high level of dust. Just like the Mintex HPR 1144 race pads
that we also sell but do not recommend for the average street driver
who does not race the car and hates cleaning the wheels every few
days. Different pads for different uses.

Also The Golf magazine did a test of about 8 high performance
brake pads in England. The Ferodo and the Mintex race pads were
in these 8. Here are the results of the test.

This was a independent testing and they did 15 test on each pad.
They did not test for dust or other factors.

Pad:                       Average Stopping Distance:

Standard OE VW Pads       34.4m
Frenzi Italia                       32.3m
Pagid T4151                      31.6m
Pagid FR4151                    30.7m
Ferodo DS2000                  32.7m
Brembo                             31.8m
G-Force Sport                    30.5m
Formula Pads                     32.7m
OMP 961k                         30.7m
Mintex 1144                       26.9m



































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Tim,
let me explain myself a little more clearer.... sorry for the
misunderstandings..
We are not talking about the same test. a local tuner shop in cali did an
independent test on Fedodo, Mintex, Pigid, PBR, stock pads, Hawk pads.
(Mintex has been using the same compound in their red box pads for about 8
years, so it has not changed.  Also the stuff you see in some of the
European based mags will differ from American magazines.  They pay people
for pics, and article info over there, so it can be misrepresented.  The
American mags don't operate in the same fashion) They used an A2 GTI for
testing.  on each test, they used new rotors to give better results.  These
numbers are for 60-0 distances.  On A3 cars, the numbers will be slightly
smaller (only by about 8-9 feet).  There were 2-3 test done on all of the
following pads:Ferodo 3466 high performance, 3497 standard street, hawk blue
race, mintex red box, high performance, pagid metal master, PBR metal
master, and stock VW.
10 runs were done in each test from a cold start to hot.  an average was
taken from all 10 stops for the total.  there were 8 categories which ranged
from pedal feel, modulation, initial bite, noise, dust, rotor wear, and
consistent pedal feel throughout temp range.
the Ferodo pads (both sets) scores the highest.
measurements in feet          average stop/best stop/worst stop/average 1-5
stops/average6-10 stops
Ferodo high performance     139.1/129/146/136.2/142
Ferodo standard street       140.5/127/153/134.4/146.6 (at the end of the
test, pads were fading)
hawk blue race                    138.7/134/141/138.6/138.8 (rotors were
severely worn after test)
mintex red box                    167.2/146/189/154.6/179.8
mintex high performance 154.7/140/170/143.8/165.6
pagid metal                         156.9/145/174/148.4/165.4
PBR                                    144/137/154/142.8/145.2
stock VW                            148.3/138/162/144/152.6
just to give you a comparison to A3 cars... a stock VR6 jetta  (sorry gti
guys, I own a jetta and don't have stock GTI stats) will stop 60-0 in 139
feet.
if you would like to see the complete test results... email me and I will
send you the file.
-----Original Message-----
From: New Dimensions <turbotimnewdimensions>
To: gti-vr6dev.tivoli <gti-vr6dev.tivoli>
Cc: georgeqst.dxnet <georgeqst.dxnet>
Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 9:58 PM
Subject: [gti-vr6] Brake pads


"George Turner, Jr." <georgeqst.dxnet> wrote:
>OK everyone, this came around faster than I planned due to my
>front brake pads grinding against my rotors.....  I currently have
>Mintex Pads, and I love them, but from some recent stats have
>lead me to believe that FERODO brake pads are FAR superior to
>Mintex pads (except for the dust content). If you would like to see
>test results from Hawk, Mintex, Ferodo, and a couple other
>Manufactures, please email me privately and I will send you

George
I am sure the Ferodo and many other brake pads are very good but
to post a statement of FAR superior is not a fair comparison.
In the test that I am sure you are talking about I do not believe the
stock replacement Ferodo pads were tested but the fast road ones
were. Compounds may have changed that Mintex used back when
this test was done just like the Ferodo has also. The Mintex
redbox are like a stock replacement and are not for racing use.

The DS2000 as well as the early Ferodo are a race/sport pad that
have a high level of dust. Just like the Mintex HPR 1144 race pads
that we also sell but do not recommend for the average street driver
who does not race the car and hates cleaning the wheels every few
days. Different pads for different uses.

Also The Golf magazine did a test of about 8 high performance
brake pads in England. The Ferodo and the Mintex race pads were
in these 8. Here are the results of the test.

This was a independent testing and they did 15 test on each pad.
They did not test for dust or other factors.

Pad:                       Average Stopping Distance:

Standard OE VW Pads       34.4m
Frenzi Italia                       32.3m
Pagid T4151                      31.6m
Pagid FR4151                    30.7m
Ferodo DS2000                  32.7m
Brembo                             31.8m
G-Force Sport                    30.5m
Formula Pads                     32.7m
OMP 961k                         30.7m
Mintex 1144                       26.9m



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> From:          "George Turner, Jr." <georgeqst.dxnet>
> To:            "New Dimensions" <turbotimnewdimensions>,
>                "Jetta Mailing List" <jettaglxigtc>,
>                "gti vr6 mailing list" <gti-vr6cobra.ccsi>
> Subject:       Re: [gti-vr6] Brake pads (kinda long)
> Date:          Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:13:18 -0800

> Tim,
> let me explain myself a little more clearer.... sorry for the
> misunderstandings..
> We are not talking about the same test.

Yes we are talking about the same test. This tuner who did
the test sells Ferodo pads and does not sell Mintex,Pagid,  and PBR.
So this right away is a bias test. None of the results can be taken
with out a degree of skepticism. I have seen the results of this test
as it was published in EC. I also saw the original test results.


a local tuner shop in cali
> did an independent test

This is far from a independent test. An independent test is done by a
lab or test facility that has nothing to do with the selling of
products.

>  Also the stuff you
> see in some of the European based mags will differ from American
> magazines.  They pay people for pics, and article info over there,
> so it can be misrepresented.  The American mags don't operate in the
> same fashion)

I would believe a european mag long before I would EC or most of the
US mags. The Golf article was done by some of the staff of the
magazine.  You are talking about European Car not Road and Track.
They have no independent testing facility or equipment of their own.
There purpose is to support the advertisers and as many people have
complained about them on the net about the articles. They are a fluff
mag that exsist to help us advertisers. Almost all magazines are like
that here in the US. Some do try to get accurate testing but there
are only a few. As one of the major magazine publishers told me
magazines are for the advertisers and not the readers. The
advertising is what pays the bills for the publishers.

> They used an A2 GTI for testing.  on each test, they
> used new rotors to give better results.

Again is seems very strange that the company doing the test happens
to sell the pads that did the best.  Mintex as well as my company had
nothing to do with the test in The Golf magazine.  It is very easy to
make results turn out any way a person wants. Proper seating of pads,
testing conditions, testers bias as well as not being a double blind
test would make these results very hard to accept as any type of fair
test of  brake pads. No testing was done on a race track or under
controlled conditions.

The point being that you are basing your opinion on a bias very
unscientific test and I am defending the results with a set of unbiased
results from an English publication. Like I said I disagree with your
statement of the Ferodo being FAR superior than the Mintex. This is
my opinion just like your comments are your opinion. Both
manufacturers make great brake pads and I am sure a person will not
do bad with either one.
turbotimnewdimension
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> Priority:      normal
> Date:          30 Dec 1998 10:56:24 -0500
> From:          "Forkenbrock, Garrick <NHTSA>" <Garrick.Forkenbrocknhtsa.dot.gov>
> To:            gti-vr6dev.tivoli, turbotimnewdimensions
> Cc:            georgeqst.dxnet
> Subject:       Re: [gti-vr6] Brake pads

> Tim, you didn't include the test speeds the stops were made from for
> the stopp ing distances you provided (about 50 mph?)  Were the
> numbers obtained before o r after the pads were up to operating
> temperature.  If I recall correctly the Ferodo DS2000 offers
> superior fade resistance to the Mintex 1144.  This is cer tainly a
> feature for the road racers to consider.

I will have to go dig out the magazine to see how the test was
done but I believe it was done on a race track and the speeds were
about 40-50mph.  I had the results in an old E-mail. What do you mean
by "if I recall" Are you talking about a magazine article you read ?

The Vento cup in England used the 1144 pads in all the race cars.
The 1144 compound as well as the newer compounds from Mintex BBA are
used in many race cars all over the world. I would not imagine that
the DS2000 would be much better if at all than the 1144. Both are
great track compounds.  The independent test in The Golf magazine
does not show the DS2000 to be better than the 1144 this to be the
case.

I am not the one saying the 1144 is better only stating the DS2000 is
not far superior as George posted  or are far superior in fade
resistance as you post.

BBA Friction-Mintex  is not some small little company that does not
know about building brake pads and compounds. They are a well
respected brake manufacturer that are sold by many tuners all over
the world. In England you will see them sold along with the Ferodo
pads in all the trade publications. Both are great pads.




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