This Saturday I had the opportunity to drive Dave Leahy's GTIVR6 and
ride shotgun with Dave for a few dozen miles.  Dave's beautiful
steed has the following performance mods:

Schrick 268s w/Garrett's 268 chip
Schrick Manifold
Scorpion Exhaust
H&R Coilovers
Sway bars 25/28

All I can say is WOW!  The VR6 should've had the 268s from the 
factory.  It pulls hard from the get-go all the way into the red.  
Idle isn't lumpy but very much stock (Garrett?).  Its hard to tell
how much different the performance would have been without the 
Schrick Intake but I would definately want this combo on my car.
My stock VR6 felt anemic after driving Dave's :(

The Exhaust was too loud for my tastes but it definately looked nice
with the upswept dual tips.

Now for the reason I wanted to drive Dave's car - H&R Coilovers.  Let
me preface my remarks by saying that I did drive a 94 GLX with this
setup last summer and was a very disappointed.  The GLX was slammed 
and the H&Rs seemed to crash on certain bumps.  The ride unsettling
due to the fact that on certain bumps, the impact would force my to
stutter while talking (like someone hitting you in the back).  All 
this with 16" wheels!

Dave didn't slam his car with the H&Rs but set it low (perhaps 2.5"
lower than stock).  Although he also had his 17" OZ wheels on, the
ride was simply amazing!  I know suspensions are subjective but I will
describe Dave's as firm, yet compliant - not even close to harsh. 
Keep in mind folks that the rates of the H&Rs are 400# front and 285#
rear!  Definately showed me how much a factor the shock is in ride
harshness.  The best part.....my wife came along for the drive and
absolutely loved the ride quality!  To compare, she found the Neuspeed
springs & Bilstein HD suspension on a GTI with 17" RXs to be too
harsh.  H&R coilovers are made in Germany with 100% Bilstein
components and warrantied by H&R USA.  Price... just over $1000.

Many thanks to Dave for letting us drive his car!

Cheers,

--- 
Jeff Newton
Unix Systems Administrator
PMC-Sierra Inc.

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Finally had the chance to install my H&R coilovers over winter break. My
first impressions are that they ride really well. Previously I had the spax
on the car and they rode like ass. Real bouncy ride and harsh over little
bumps. When the front one blew out with less than 10,000 miles on it i knew
it was time to change. These ride like the ND/Neuspeed setup with BOGE
Progas except a little firmer. And boy can they get LOW....i'm dumped all
the way around and have the tires tucked all around. Will have to raise it
a bit for the 17's. They handle really well too. A bit faster into and out
of the same corners and a few miles per hour faster through the favorite on
ramps. 

Don't dick around and just get high quality coilovers.
I'm told the abt coilovers ride a little more forgiving than these.


Edmund
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Edmund writes:

snip
<< Don't dick around and just get high quality coilovers.
 I'm told the abt coilovers ride a little more forgiving than these. >>

I don't know what the spring rates are for the Abt's, but the valving is the
same.  Both are based on Bilstein Rallye damper rates, AFAIK. 
Just for general info, the VR6 H&R coilovers (as Edmund knows) come stock with
390lbs f and 280lbs r springs.  Different rates can be substituted at no extra
cost, varying from 170lbs to 840lbs in ~75lbs increments.  They are also
standard 2.25" diameter, so any other type spring manufacturer's will fit,
too.
And: we have the sets on sale til Jan 31st for $1079 per set plus shipping.

Todd
Air & Water
1-888-565-2257
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Coincidentally, here on the east coast I installed (with the help of Jeff
Atwood and his buddy Greg) my H&R coilovers last night after they had been
sitting in my living room for over a month. I can't believe I waited that
long to put them on, because this is THE setup to have as far as I'm
concerned. I was pleasantly surprised at how smooth the ride was. Anyone who
has concerns about a stiff ride due to the standard springs the package
comes with (390lb front, 280lb rear) need not worry at all. The ride is not
harsh by any stretch of the imagination. As far as the handling goes, I've
yet to test the limits of these things as I need to first get an alignment
before I really let 'er rip. I've noticed though that body roll has been
significantly reduced. If anyone wants a more detailed review, I would be
more than glad to help.

BTW I wholehearted agree with Edmund--do it right the first time and get
those coilovers!

Kevin Ng
97 Jetta GLX Windsor Blue
 
[...] 27 lines deleted

I know lots of guys with the H&R set up.  Sure the struts aren't the 24 way 
adjustable type but I assure you H&R's are top quality.  Awesome ride, and in 
no way cheaply made like lots of other systems out there.  I know this fall 
when my coilovers show up at the door they will be H&R. I wouldn't consider 
any others.  Just my experiences.

Michael London
99 A3 GTI VR6....."Stomp das pedal to der medal."
EuroVR6aol
USAF IMT RC-135S Cobra Ball
45 Reconnaissance Squadron
Offutt AFB, NE.
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PktRktVR6aol wrote:

> Does anybody on the list have any experiences with either one of these
> setups??  I'm thinking about purchasing a set of coilovers, but am stuck
> between the AVO's and H&R's.  I've heard all the horror stories of the first
> generation AVO's, but havn't heard anything about the "new" 2nd generation.

Probably because of the fact that the first ones were SO dreadful (less
reliable than Spax, if that's even possible) that people are shying away
from the "new" ones.  I would too.  Fool me once, shame on you.. fool me
twice, shame on ME.

> I' have also heard nothing but great things about the H&R's, but i'm not so
> sure about the idea that the shocks are not fully adjustable... while the
> AVO's are 24-way adjustable.  Another thing is warranties.  Is it true that
> H&R's come with a 1 year warranty, while the AVO's have a lifetime warrany
> through CFI???   

H&R's entire product line enjoys a great reputation.  Not sure about the
warranty issue, call the Potterman at Virtual World, 714-663-2434, he can
give you the low-down.. as well as sell you a set if that's how you wind up
deciding to go.


--
Kevin Collins
'86.5 Scirocco 16V 2.0
'99 GTI GLX
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/1780
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EuroVR6aol wrote:
 
> I know lots of guys with the H&R set up.  Sure the struts aren't the 24 way
> adjustable type but I assure you H&R's are top quality.  Awesome ride, and in
> no way cheaply made like lots of other systems out there.  I know this fall
> when my coilovers show up at the door they will be H&R. I wouldn't consider
> any others.  Just my experiences.

Oh yeah I forgot to add.. I've ridden in H&R's own Audi A3, which was down
from
Seattle for the LA car show in January and was on loan to Potter for a week.
It was equipped with H&R coilovers (natch) and a bunch of other goodies (like
chipped 1.8T, 18" wheels...).  That sucker rode and handled AWESOME... I'd
assume they can work the same magic with the GTI.


--
Kevin Collins
'86.5 Scirocco 16V 2.0
'99 GTI GLX
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Factory/1780
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I have had the H&R coilover setup for approximately 3-4 months now. I can
truly attest to the handling characteristics of my GLX to be fantastic! I
must also say that the ride quality is not quite supple on anything but a
relatively smooth surface. It is harsh, but the car is also lowered 1.3
inches. I had a back-ache for a few days after I got the setup, but now my
spine has adjusted, thank you.

I should also say that I am running 15" stock BBS mesh rims. The fender gap
is about 1/2 an inch while the back is a little bit lower. Great stance.

I thought about going for some 16's but I'm not completely convinced as I
drive through some rough roads through Hollywood.

I recommend them whole-heartedly!


At 10:15 PM -0400 6/23/99, PktRktVR6aol wrote:
>Does anybody on the list have any experiences with either one of these
[...] 10 lines deleted
___________________________________
Jyoteen Majmudar, Creative Director

Creative Domain: Motion
Los Angeles, CA, USA

+1 310 845 3488 / direct
+1 310 845 3400 / main

jyoteencreativedomain
jyoteenhotmail

http://www.fotographische.com (a creative exchange for artists)

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The shocks (Bilstein built) have a 1 year warranty on them.  The rest of the 
hardware has a lifetime warranty.  However, I have yet to handle a warranty 
claim on *any* Bilstein unit, coilover design or not.  8 years in business.
We can't keep the H&R coilovers in stock.  They are very popular.

Todd
Air & Water
www.awe-tuning

<<Does anybody on the list have any experiences with either one of these 
setups??  I'm thinking about purchasing a set of coilovers, but am stuck 
[...] 11 lines deleted

I guess I'll chime in too--

The handling on the H&R's *is* amazing. So much so that I don't see the need
to do any sway/strut bar upgrades. The hefty price tag doesn't seem so bad
anymore, does it?

Ride is not harsh IMO, and I live in the Northeast and drive into NYC quite
often. The coilovers soak up 95% of the bumps very well. It's that other 5%
(ie. sharp bumps, potholes, roadkill) that can give you and your car a major
hernia. I've learned to spot these types way ahead of time, enough to avoid
them effortlessly.

Jyoteen, with the stock rims do you get any rubbing on the inside tires? 

Kevin Ng
97 Jetta GLX Windsor Blue

[...] 33 lines deleted

I feel that I should still emphasize that the H&R's coilovers are great,
and I've learned to see farther to avoid serious dips and potholes. On the
freeway, the car is unbelievable.

I don't get any rubbing on the inside tires even at full turn lock
situations. I do have the 5mm spacers by H&R up front though. The rears
don't rub as well, even with 5 passengers in the car, going over some dips.
The car also cleared some nasty speedbumps with said 5 passenger load.
Wooohooo!

You still have to watch for some steep driveways, going in with the front
spoiler scraping and backwards, with the Borla exhaust scraping. Other than
that, its all good.


At 9:59 AM -0400 6/24/99, Ng, Kevin (NationsCredit) wrote:
>I guess I'll chime in too--
[...] 16 lines deleted
___________________________________
Jyoteen Majmudar, Creative Director

Creative Domain: Motion
Los Angeles, CA, USA

+1 310 845 3488 / direct
+1 310 845 3400 / main

jyoteencreativedomain
jyoteenhotmail

http://www.fotographische.com (a creative exchange for artists)

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The slightly harsh ride is from the 400# and 290# springs. You can choose to
change to the next lighter springs and set the height a little higher and
they are IMO better than the Shine setup. The Bilstein Monotubes were
designed for racing, but these are valved perfectly for the street driven
VR6. I think Todd will swap out the springs if you want a little lighter
settings. I'm perfectly satisfied with mine just the way they are. I am
going to add stressbars, but I don't think sways are even needed.

Bob C.


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The H&R's coilovers are extremely good.  The dampers are matched perfectly 
to the springs.  Very smooth to decent roads.  On the streets of San 
Francisco I have to drive pretty much at parking lot speeds.  The streets in 
SF are really f'ed up compared to Portland.  It's frustrating, but I guess I 
will either 1)not drive in the city or 2)get used to driving very slowly.  I 
think the front tires rub with the wheelwell liner going over bumps at over 
25 mph.

I am thinking about raising the front end up a bit.  Right now the car as a 
nose down stance.  Any advice on the process of raising the front end?

Thanks.


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit 
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After many hours of hard work, with *lots* of help from some very cool VW
owners who gathered at Wally's house yesterday, my H&R Coilovers are
INSTALLED!

The car hasn't been aligned yet but, so far, I'm very happy with the new
suspension. There's no doubt that the springs are stiff. The car follows
every dip and bump in the road like it's glued down. Occasionally, on
certain roads, the ride gets a little bouncy. It's not an unsettled bounce,
it's just the car following the exact contour of the road.

Body roll is almost non-existent, as are squat and dive under acceleration
and braking. I drove on some roads today that used to really upset the car
with the stock suspension and I couldn't believe how much more control I had
with the H&Rs. Like Greg Coe said, the H&Rs really inspire confidence behind
the wheel.

Over small bumps, the H&Rs are slightly firmer than stock, but more "solid."
The stock suspension, which had 27K miles on it, was overwhelmed by every
little bump in the road. As a result, the ride was harsh. With the H&Rs, you
still feel the bumps, but they are not as harsh. And the car is no longer
jittery over washboard pavement.

In sum, I would say the H&Rs are more "sporty" than the stock suspension,
but with even better ride quality (i.e., a little more bouncy, but less
harsh). From what I've read on this list, and having driven half a dozen
VR6s with aftermarket suspensions, I'd attribute this to the incredible
Bilstein dampers. They are strong enough to control the high-rate springs
(390 lb. front / 280 lb. rear), yet compliant enough to soak up bumps
without feeling harsh.

- -Jason
'98 Silver Arrow GTI-VR6
H&R Coilovers, Toyo Proxes FZ4s, Garrett v.11, Turn2 lower motor mount,
Neuspeed side repeater lights, K&N in stock airbox, Denon/Polk audio, VW
mudflaps & rubber mats