Hey all,

I just got the car back from the dealer for trans repairs (re-check) and the
service manager "did me a favor" and did an alignment (he was being nice,
good guy) BUT they put it back to the factory settings. :(  I don't know
what the factory alignment specs are but my razor sharp handling is gone.
If you get or have NS Bilsteins and SofSport springs be sure to use
Neuspeeds recommended settings of 1 deg neg camber, 1/16" toe-out. These
settings do not cause abnormal tire wear (at least not on my 'mobile) and
the steering response and on-center feel is better than the factory setting
(I'm assuming they did the alignment correctly).  Guess I'll make a trip to
my alignment buddy this weekend and have him "tweak" it for me.
on another note,

Guy here just got a new Lexus LS400.  I was glancing it over and noticed
that it too wears Eagle GA rubber!! <bleck>  Can you imagine handing over
that kinda cash and still getting rotten rubber?  I'd be one pissed customer.

TH34303swt wrote:
> Hey Andy, would you send me the specs for your alignment.  Just put the
> coilovers on and need to get it aligned, and I don't mind burning the GA's
> while I at it.

  This is from the NTB print-out:

		left		right
		front		front
		-----		-----
  Camber	-2.1'		-2.1'
  Toe		-0.08'		-0.08'


  Note that the rear's alignment is (not easily) adjustable.
  Also note that front caster angle is not adjustable.
  Also note that -0.08' is almost straight ahead toe.  I wanted to get
  1/8" toe-out total (1/16" toe-out per side) and that's what I told
  the NTB dude, who consulted with another, slightly less clueless
  NTB dude, who came back with "-0.08' is about 1/16" per side".
  Unfortunately, I agreed to that (I couldn't do the calculations
  in my head fast enough to figure out whether, given 17" wheels,
  -0.08' is 1/16" toe-out or not.)

  As it turned out, 1/16" toe-out, with 17" wheels, is about -0.4'.
  Oh well.

--
Andy Nguyen \ aqntivoli \ Tivoli Systems, Austin, TX \ 512.436.8229
        Ave, XTela, morituri te salutamus.

[...]

> 3. Toe out the front 1/8" - 1/4".  Adjust for max caster THEN camber front
> and rear.  Is the rear caster adjustable?  (I haven't owned mine long
> enough!)

  I _think_ it is.  It is NOT adjustable in the sense of loosening nuts
  and moving things around, but I think it is adjustable via other means
  e.g. shims.

[...]

> 4. Toe out the rear using alignment shims if needed to get it more neutral

  I know for a fact that rear toe is adjustable with shims (this comes
  from Richard Windberg, my local VW guru, who has the rears on his
  '96 GTI VR6 toed out at 1/8" (1/16" per side)).

[...]

> Note: I'd forgotten how much camber and caster you can get with the stock
> stuff.

  On the front, it's as much as you can stand, up to -3.5 or -4.0!
  (I watched the NTB guy as he did my alignment, and as soon as he
  loosened the second nut, the wheel flopped to about -3.5 degree!)

CONIPC wrote:
> could i get the range of front alignment specs preferred and any reasoning
> from list members?  have Bilsteins and slightly cut springs, slightly more
> offset on 6" x 15 wheels, stock size tires  TIA

  I would recommend -2 camber and 1/8" toe-out (1/16" each side) for the
  front wheels for auto-xing and really serious canyon carving.
  Some people say that much negative camber will make your tires
  wear funny, but I haven't seen that problem.  I think if you just
  push it moderately had on the street, the tires will wear equally
  (quickly! |-).  You can do with less negative in the front if
  you don't push it much on the street.
  
  Note:  do some calculations and convert the toe out
  to degrees because I think alignment machines (at least the one at
  the NTB I went to) only understands degrees.  Also, the 1/8" amount
  is for the stock 15" wheels;  depending on the diameter of your wheels,
  the toe-out amount may be different (larger wheels == more toe-out
  (in inches) for the same amount of toe-out (in degrees).

  If/when you get a rear anti-roll bar, you can reduce the camber in
  the front.

-- 
Andy Nguyen \ aqntivoli \ Tivoli Systems, Austin, TX \ 512.436.8229
	Ave, XTela, morituri te salutamus.

I run 1.5 deg negative camber, and 0" toe.  If you autocross regularly,
you may consider going to 2 - 2.5 deg neg, and 1/16th - 1/8" total toe
out.  If you don't autocross often, forget the toe out, for sure, it
wears your front tires out faster than you'd probably like (unless you
have stock in a tire company, or are not concerned about your
finances:-))
-- 
-Holland
hjppacbell

Yep.  -1.5 degrees camber and 1/16" total toe out
for a sport alignment.   My shop actually does 0 toe "pushed"
which means they put a bar between the back of the tires
and push out, then align for 0 toe.  This simulates what happens
when you're hard on the gas and the tires toe in a little (RWD cars
do the opposite).  It means that my static toe is probably 1/16" to 1/8" 
inch out but I don't know for sure.  It works though.

Running this kind of negative camber actually solved my tire wear 
problems.  My tires used to wear on the outside faster with the
stock alignment settings.

Oh, 3 more things.
1. Take your car to some place that has a clue.  That generally means 
no tire stores or Sears or whatever.   Find a shop that does
alignments and preferably won't give you grief for running outside
factory specs.  Just tell them that it's an Auto-X car up front.

2. Make sure they loosen the clamps on the tie rod end boots
or they'll tear when they go to adjust the toe.

3. Absolutely refuse to let them get away with not centering 
your steering wheel.  Some places will claim that it's not 
possible for some stupid reason or another.  That's bull.  
Our cars have adjustable tie rod ends on both sides, so there's
never a problem getting the steering wheel straight, although
sometimes you've got to take it down, drive it around the block
and bring it back to make sure it's right before declaring that it's
done.  

	ian

"Gavin G. Dennis" <gdennisbpg-online> wrote:
>
>Dont shoot me but now i have an alignment question.  I am installing
>bilstein sports with H&R springs and i will need to get an alignment.  What
>is the suggested alignment?  I do auto-x but i dont want to set-up the car
>solely for auto-x.  I am looking for the all around good performing
>alignment that doesnt chew tires for breakfast.  I looked on the archives
>and it had only one settig for auto-x specifically.  If i rememeber, it was
>something like -1.5 camber and 1/8 total toe out for front and -1.0 degrees
>camber for rear.
>
>Thanks
>Gavin