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Problem with Metra wiring adapter for radio in 98 A3s

Problem with Metra wiring adapter for radio in 98 A3s

Table of Contents
[gti-vr6] WARNING! stereo install in '98 GTI (LONG) jaymarterols Fri, 22 May 1998 12:55:49 -0500
[gti-vr6] WARNING: Carcomp Users and 1998 owners Uwe Ross <Uwe.Rosspobox> Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:55:00 -0400
[gti-vr6] The Metra Problem Uwe Ross <Uwe.Rosspobox> Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:10:46 -0400
Re: [gti-vr6] The Metra Problem Uwe Ross <Uwe.Rosspobox> Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:01:21 -0400



From gti-vr6-owner Fri May 22 11:52 CDT 1998
From: jaymarterols
To: "GTI-VR6 Mailing List" <gti-vr6dev.tivoli>
Subject: [gti-vr6] WARNING! stereo install in '98 GTI (LONG)
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:55:49 -0500
 
Uwe, a VW expert who will remain nameless, and I have discovered a problem
with using a Metra wiring adapter when installing an aftermarket stereo in a
'98 GTI-VR6. I will try my best to explain the problem here. If you are
planning to install an aftermarket stereo in your '98 car, please keep
reading.

I bought a wiring adapter for an aftermarket in-dash CD player at my local
electronics superstore (Circuit City) the other day. It's made by Metra and
the package says "VW, 1987-up." It's got a square black receptacle on one
end, into which the factory harnesses plug, and loose wires on the other
end, which get connected to the wires from the radio.

If I were to hook up the new stereo to the Metra adapter according to
Metra's instructions, my radio's antenna lead (12v) would be connected to a
constant 12v wire on the factory side. This is not good. And get this: the
Metra adapter has a wire that links the radio's antenna lead (which is
already in the wrong place) to the K-wire on the factory side. (The K-wire
is linked to the ECU and allows a VAG 1551 to interface with the factory
radio. This wire should remain OPEN if you install an aftermarket radio.)

Let me try some ASCII art to illustrate. I'm going to focus on the bottom
half of the receptacle on the Metra adapter because that's where the factory
harness with all the power wires plugs in. (The top half of the Metra
receptacle receives the factory harness with all the speaker wires.)

   1     3     5     7
 open   ant   ant   mem
         |_____|              (wire connected to #3 and #5)

   2     4     6     8
 open   12v   dim   ground    ("Dim" is for dimmer)
    (switched)


The metra adapter actually has a wire that jumps from pin 3 to pin 5. There
is another wire coming from pin 5 that is supposed to be connected to the
radio's antenna lead.

Now, on the factory harness, pin 3 is the K wire, or "data link" and pin 5
is "Positive (B+) supply (anti-theft)," according to the diagram that Uwe
kindly posted at 

I'm no electrical engineer, but this looks VERY wrong. I tested pin 5 on the
factory side and found 12 volts constant power (regardless of whether the
key was in the ignition or if the ignition was on). Now, imagine that power
getting routed to the K-wire (by the Metra adapter). Then, throw in the 12
volts coming from the radio's antenna lead. Is this a recipe for disaster,
or what?

Uwe wrote:
>If an aftermarket plug-in harness connects the K-wire to something it
>shouldn't, then that may explain why the dealers are seeing blown ECUs.
>If this is the case, it sounds like someone mis-engineered the
>aftermarket harness.  Ouch.

Bingo. Either Metra has not updated its adapter for the 1998 cars or they
are not aware of the new K-wire. Whatever the case may be, the adapter
that's available in stores now is downright scary.

Uwe wrote:
>I'll repeat.  If you replace the radio with an aftermarket unit, make
>sure the K-wire in the factory harness does *not* get connected to
>*anything*.

I hope this makes sense. If you're putting an aftermarket head unit into a
'98 car, BEWARE! Contact me at jaymarterols for more info.

-Jason
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From gti-vr6-ownerdev.tivoli Tue Aug 25 10:02 CDT 1998
From: Uwe Ross <Uwe.Rosspobox>
To: gti-vr6dev.tivoli
Subject: [gti-vr6] WARNING: Carcomp Users and 1998 owners
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:55:00 -0400
Organization: Ross-House
 
I was on the road this weekend and met up with a couple of other
listmembers.  Several were interested in VWTool and I tried to give a
demo.  Unfortunately, the car that was available to demo the product was
a 1998 with an aftermarket radio.  I suppose I have too much faith in
the power of this list...

The radio was installed with a Metra harness adapter.  Bad news!  This
adapter connects the K-Wire to unswitched +12!  Bottom line:  The ISO
<-> RS232 adapter that came with my Carcomp software is now toast.

This same problem is also known to blow VAG 1551's, and *may* cause
damage to the ECU, ABS/EDL and Airbag controllers as well -- thankfully,
in this case, it appears the guy's controllers are OK -- he's since cut
the offending wire and had his car sucessfully scanned using a 1551.

Anyway,

* If you own Carcomp's VWTool or OBDTool, think twice before scanning
any 1998 car that has an aftermarket radio installed.

* If you have a 1998 and already have or are planning to install an
aftermarket radio, double-check the harness adapter and make sure the
K-wire does not get connected to *anything*.

This whole mess was documented right here on this list in back in May
and you can read more about it at
h t t p ://www.panix/~aqn/GTI_VR6/gti_vr6/library/hifi/prob_w_Metra_wiring_adapter_in_98s.html

This URL is now at:
http://www.gti-vr6.net/library/hifi/prob_w_Metra_wiring_adapter_in_98s.html

[driver/hired]

-Uwe-


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From gti-vr6-ownerdev.tivoli Thu Sep 3 11:56 CDT 1998
From: Uwe Ross <Uwe.Rosspobox>
To: gti-vr6dev.tivoli
Subject: [gti-vr6] The Metra Problem
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:10:46 -0400
Organization: Ross-House
 
Matt Cleland wrote:
>
> This weekend I went out and pulled my indash CD receiver to check for the
> infamous K-wire problem on 98's.  It turns out that my car (built 10/97)
> has the same radio connections as documented in the Bentley, section 91-4.
> This is different than the connections posted by Uwe for "late" 98s.

I don't think the Bose/Panasonic system you have has a k-wire going to
it, so you should be safe.

> BTW, I re-measured voltage at the data-link connector after I replaced the
> factory headunit.  Again, no +12V on the K-wire with ignition off, and +12V
> on the K-wire with ignition on.  Somebody on the list this weekend suggested
> that there should be +5V on the K-wire, but I get +12V.  As far as I know,
> no scanning of my car has taken place.  Maybe one of you adventurous types
> could go measure your K-wire voltage and report back.

jaymarterols wrote:

> That could be true. One thing comes to mind, however. Uwe said that he fried
> the adapter to his laptop (or VAG 1551?) because he plugged it into a car
> with an improperly installed stereo. I think that  +12v at the K-wire was
> the culprit. (I'm forwarding a copy of this to Uwe, but I think he may be
> away; I haven't seen any posts from him in a few days.)
>
> I'd like to check the K-wire voltage at the 1551 port in my car. Which pin
> is it?

Refer again to the diagram at
http://wso.net/ross/Uwe/VR6/Service/OBD%20Connector.gif

You want to measure between pins 7 and 4.  You only have The Metra
Problem (tm) if you measure 12V there with the ignition OFF.  You should
have nothing, nada, there with the ignition OFF.

I do not know what's "supposed" to be there with the ignition ON.
Everyone seems to measure something different.  I've heard 12V, 5V, and
when I just measured it myself, I got 1.8V.  The K-wire may be a
"current loop" kind of interface (those are very noise immune), in which
case the voltage present isn't really determinate.   I'm gonna ask, and
will report back.

-Uwe-

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From gti-vr6-ownerdev.tivoli Fri Sep 4 10:00 CDT 1998
From: Uwe Ross <Uwe.Rosspobox>
To: jaymarterols
Subject: Re: [gti-vr6] The Metra Problem
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:01:21 -0400
 
jaymarterols wrote:
>
> Uwe Ross <Uwe.Rosspobox> wrote:
>> I do not know what's "supposed" to be there with the ignition ON.
>> Everyone seems to measure something different.  I've heard 12V, 5V, and
>> when I just measured it myself, I got 1.8V.  The K-wire may be a
>> "current loop" kind of interface (those are very noise immune), in which
>> case the voltage present isn't really determinate.   I'm gonna ask, and
>> will report back.
>
> I just checked mine and got 4-4.5 volts with the igntion on and 0 volts with
> the ignition off, which matches the readings I took on the factory radio
> harness in the dash. This is on a 1/98 GTI-VR6 with aftermarket stereo.

OK, I asked John  Carcomp what's supposed to be there with the ignition
on.  He said:

   The voltage you read with the ignition ON would depend
   on the leakage of each controllers output transistor.
   Connect a 1K resistor between Pin 7 (K) and Pin 4 (gnd).
   The voltage on pin 7 should be less than 1 volt. If the
   resistor gets warm, the "K" line is tied to VBatt.

This test would cover all shorts to switched or unswitched Vbatt.

To sum this up:

You can see the pinout for the OBD connector at:
http://wso.net/ross/Uwe/VR6/Service/OBD%20Connector.gif

* The easiest way to identify "The Metra Problem" is to put a voltmeter
between pins 4 and 7 with the ignition OFF.   If you've got 0V, you
don't have "The Metra Problem".

* Measuring the voltage with the ignition ON is meaningless, you'll find
some indeterminate voltage.  However, turning the ignition ON and
finding *some* voltage is a good way to be sure that your voltmeter is
actually connected.  Most voltmeter probes won't get into the ODB
connector very well.  I shoved some bare #24 wire into the connector and
put my probes on that.

* To be absolutely sure that the K-wire is not shorted to a switched +12
source (which would also blow the Carcomp adapter or the 1551) use the
test given by John above.

* As an alternative to all of this, just remove the k-wire from the
factory's harness
connector.  The pinout for this harness is here:
http://wso.net/ross/images/Late%2098%20Radio.jpg


-Uwe-

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